From PTCC minutes for 8/1/22: The following spoke regarding the YMCA's policies regarding transgender individuals: Julie Jaman Rebecca Horst Zacharia Parker Sylvia Hines Peter Robinson Ollie Alison Hedlund Hannah McFarland Albie Baker Eli Chiprout Rose Marshall Andre Wilson Anna Wolfe Darcy Reeder Jaisri Lingappa regarding affordable housing and the poor audio of the City Council retreat. Further Comments regarding the YMCA transgender policy from: Mary Bond Sebastian Eggert Stephen Schumacher (also commented on Police staffing) Michelle Sandoval Shasta Berg Megan Doherty Abby Thornton Nicole Chimenti Lima Constria City staff response Mayor Faber commented that Port Townsend is a welcoming community and hate and discrimination have no place here. All people are deserving of basic respect, which he said has not been demonstrated tonight. He added that state law is clear on the protections afforded transgender citizens. Regarding the YMCA situation, City Manager John Mauro stated there has been considerable misinformation about the incident and about who is responsible for YMCA policy. He added that this is not a debate that Council can have nor can the Council make a determination contrary to state law. The operation agreement between the City and the YMCA is clear that the YMCA is responsible for facility policies and Y must comply with the law as well. He stated staff is comprised of a variety of individuals and it is our duty to respect and embrace that. Confronting a staff person is not an acceptable means of dealing with policy decisions. — Comments Transcript — Julie Jaman I'd like to speak at this time. Yes. Yes please. The podium state your name and where you live for the record. I'm here because I had an experience that you need to know. I have sent it to you all in detail. In an effort by the city and the YMCA to apply the neo-cultural gender rules at Mountain View pool dressing shower room facilities, women and children are being put at risk. My experience while showering after my swim was hearing a man's voice in the women's dressing area and seeing a man in a women's swimsuit watching little girls pull down their bathing suits in order to use the toilets in the dressing room. I reacted by telling him to leave and the consequences that I had been banned from the pool. There is no signage informing women the shower room is now all gender and what that means. Nor have parents been informed of what they can expect with these new policies. The Y has not provided any dressing shower room options for women who do not want to be exposed to men who identify as women. It is unconscionable that the YMCA would instigate these new policies without clearly informing pool patrons and parents. Although in 2021, the Y reported that they were adding family in all gender dressing and bathing areas, they've not done that. Instead, they've usurped the binary designations and turned the facilities into all gender with no choices. The staff seems to have received little professional training on how to handle reactions to such radical cultural change, particularly for the most vulnerable, older female patrons and children who may be exposed to inappropriate behavior, the dignity and safety of unsuspecting women who have trusted to use these facilities for many years. This is not right. The YMCA, the city, the police and sheriffs, the parents, the professionals who assist victims of voyeurism, peeping toms, pedophilia and assault need to come together to figure out how to make the new policies work for all pool patrons not just one group. How to keep children who are less able to discriminate safe. It is ironic that women who discriminate when a situation threatens their safety or their children, a message from our ancestors, are now accused of discrimination as if they have made someone else a victim. We need to do much more intelligent and wise about applying the rules and developing policies that are respectful and inclusive. Thank you. And we need to keep it orderly in here, please. Would anyone like to speak at this point in time? Hello. My name's Rebecca Horst. I live in Squim, Washington. I just spent three hours in traffic trying to drive here so that I could get to the YMCA. I would just like to state that this individual is not a man identifying as a woman. This individual is a woman. I think that we need to have respect and inclusivity, and we need to respect this person. It is inappropriate for people in this day and age in 2022 not to recognize what transgender means. Thank you. - Thank you. (audience applauding) - Thank you everyone. Thank you for demonstrations through minimum. All right, would anyone else like to speak at this point in time? Please approach the podium. Mr. Chair, if I can just let you know that Councilmember Thomas has joined the meeting. Thank you. Please state your name and relook for the record. Zach O'Rourke Parker, who live in North Beach in Port Townsend. The science of sex and gender is really in its infancy because it's been hedged in by binary thinking for a long time. But as far as the science we do see, it clearly demonstrates that gender binary is ridiculous. It's not scientific. And I'm frankly, I find it this type of bigotry deplorable, And I'm not shocked to hear it in our community, but I'm damn mad about it. And I'm here to tell you all that. And I'm here to stand up for trans people and defend their rights. And I'm here to encourage you all to listen to them. I believe them when they tell you who they are. And when they say-- when they label trans people as pedophiles and predators, >> That's a problem. >> Thank you. >> I think you all should be ashamed of yourself. >> Anyone else like to speak? You can approach the podium, state your name and relive the record. >> My name is Sylvia Hines. I live in Port Townsend, I've lived here for about 23 years. And I was raised by a competitive swimmer. I could swim before I could walk. And one thing I know about swimming is that it's a serious life skill. And I know there's a lot of talk about gender, binary, cis. And these are very adult conversations. And as somebody who's taught a lot of kids in this community music, I've seen a lot of kids and I've seen how vulnerable they are and how confusing things can be and I know this is a hot topic. But it seems to me that a really good thing to do would be to have dressing rooms where people who identify as a different gender can have their respect and their privacy and their sovereign rights. And that little girls who are, I know what's going to happen, they're just going to quit swimming. They're just going to quit swimming because they don't want to deal with this and it doesn't make sense to them. So, that's why I'm here and why I'm saying something is for the little kids. I've seen a lot of them and I don't want them to be in these confusing moments where they feel shame and apprehension and they quit swimming. That is my statement. Thank you. All right. Would anyone else like to speak? Please approach the podium and state your name, where you live for the record. My name is Peter Robinson and I live in port towns and a half for 43 years. And, um, I would just like to say that I think that both sides of this argument, and it is an argument, are completely valid. And I think that what is really important is not rushing to judgment. There's a lot of serious emotion going on, and it's just not fair that this woman here was judged to the extent of being banned from the pool for life in the span of however many seconds it took her to react the way that she did. We need to take into account that a lot of elderly people have lived through an awful lot of binary years and all of the pressures that society put on everybody back in those days. I would really, really like to see that type of prejudice disappear. So I agree with both sides in this. I think it's really, really important that we do not rush to judgment. And that people like Julie here get their fair time to be heard. And I appreciate the council for enabling that to happen, I truly do. But I think it's really important that she doesn't get banned from the pool. She's 80 years old and she needs to swim. So, it's like, let's just listen to each other. That's all I gotta say. >> Anyone else at this time? >> [APPLAUSE] >> Please state your name and relive for the record. My name is Ollie and I live in North Beach here. I'm a nine year old non-binary person and since I'm so young, people don't often take me seriously and they will use my pronouns, but I can tell that they are not really respecting me and they don't actually think that a child can make this kind of decision. But I believe that imagine this, you know what gender you are, that's the gender you are. And if you know you're not the gender you're born, you know that's a mistake. You are not someone who identifies as female, who is male, you are someone who is female. I believe that if you know what gender you are and you get sent to the pool, and then somebody gets mad at you because you're not in the bathroom they think you're supposed to be in. That is not fair. You know what gender you are, and if someone else said, "Well, sorry, we think you should be in this bathroom, "how would that make you feel? " It's not fair that we don't count these as the same as us. These are the same kind of people, And I don't believe that we should be treating them like they're someone who identifies as someone else. That is not fair. Thank you. - Thank you. Anyone else at this point in time? All right, please approach the podium. State your name, where you live for the record. - My name is Alison Hedlund and I'm a resident at Port Townsend. and looking at the council agenda for tonight, it mentions discrimination at the Mountain View Pool. That is a loaded statement, presuming discrimination when there is a concern for safety and privacy for women and children in the locker room. The protest at the Y today, though I wasn't there the entire time, was full of rancor and personal accusations and insults by the people who showed up on the other side of this issue. We are accused of hating trans people, of being Christians at the young men's Christian association. And when we laughed that we must be cultists and then that we must be pedophiles. But what about our needs as women? Do men transitioning to be women understand that discrimination and violence are part of being a woman, and that we do need protection from predators. Do women transitioning to being men understand that they are also vulnerable to male harassment and violence? I would think so. There is absolutely no privacy in the Y's women's locker room, which means we are vulnerable. Someone who claimed to be an employee at the Y said there were private rooms with showers But then someone else said no, the private rooms were through the employees and had no showers. So which is it? I haven't been there in years because of the lack of privacy. Someone suggested we use towels to protect our modesty. We shouldn't have to be acrobats with towels, hoping they will protect us from prying eyes or worse. When men can decide that they're identifying as a woman, walk in, display their private parts, and have the freedom to ogle or harass or assault anyone there. We have seen what can happen when pedophiles and rapists can and do populate careers and locations where they have easy access to women and children. And anxiety and PTSD is not uncommon when women feel vulnerable around men. women's concerns about our safety and privacy are and always have been legitimate. And we have long been accorded the natural right to these in any public facility. Unfortunately, the 2015 whack or Washington administrative code appears to be an attempt to rob us of that right as it does not make provision for it except for vague language about provision of options being encouraged whenever feasible, which is a weak request rather than a law. It sounds optional to me. This is wrong. Locker room facilities should be upgraded to a comedy, accommodate the safety and privacy needs of everyone. Instead of declaring that we now have a free for all to enter any bathroom or locker room in coded attitude about exhaust existing facilities that do not accommodate the privacy, safety and security needs of more than half the population. Julie jonman needs to be reinstated. Her membership needs to be reinstated immediately. This is ridiculous. Thank you. As usual, please to say your name and where you live for the record? - Yeah, my name is Hannah McFarland and I've lived in Port Townsend for 15 years. And I'll be brief. I am appalled by what has happened. I resonate with everything Julie has said and I'm horrified that she was banned without any communication at all. >> Good evening, everybody. I'm Albie Baker. I've been around here for about 45 years. Port Townsend and the county. I just have one question. Why would a public pool be turned into a marketing platform for sexual preferences? And I'd like to get an answer from you guys. guys. It's usually not a back and forth process. You can make your comment and then we will have a staff and council response after a big time. Thank you. My name is Eli Chiproot and I'm a homeowner in Port Townsend. There's no not enough time in three minutes to address this issue systematically and I think that's obvious to everybody. Minimally you'd have to start distinguishing between sex and gender so that's a thing we don't have time for. But I think we can all agree that we have an innovation here. Anybody that studied history can look back and say what has gone on in history in terms of transgender. So you can do all the research you want and please do that. I hope that the council will do that. So if we agree that there's an innovation here, the onus is on the innovators to make a case and not simply just bring in some assumptions and make changes. And that's true everywhere you go. I can assume all kinds of things about people's I was just on TikTok and somebody was assuming they were a cat so I don't want to make fun of people but I just want to say people have all kinds of assumptions and we can't simply slide them in without any discussion whatsoever if the council is interested in a detailed discussion which I don't know if you are we can certainly have presentations for that but an innovation should not be introduced without a very rigorous process of change. For example, I worked for Intel Corporation. They introduced this topic by having a separate bathroom that was both sexes. If both sexes wanted to use that, but they did not disrupt the existing male and female distinction in the bathrooms. So that's one possible solution to an innovation that's introduced very recently in our history where we simply just take the changes that's proposed on us without any kind of debate. Thank you. [applause] Well. [silence] Mr. Mayor, we do have some online comments as well. My name is Rose Marshall. I'm from Clown County. And I came tonight because I am a YMCA member there. And I don't want to happen in my woman's locker what happened there So what that guy just said you make a place where both genders can go and if you got a dick you're a male Okay, I don't want to see naked men in the woman's locker. Thank you All right, we have some people who've raised their hands online Yeah, our first comment is from Andre we I Have unmuted him Andre. You'll have to unmute yourself to speak Hi, my name is Andre Wilson I'm a transgender man who identifies as non-binary. I use they/them pronouns. I Want to just say that the nine-year-old person who spoke earlier nailed it right on the head. Transgender people are the person that they identify as. So when a trans woman says they are a woman, they are a woman. When a trans man says they are a man, they are a man. There is no question about that. And in fact, that is exactly what Washington state law WAC 16232060 says about gender segregated facilities. They recognize this. They say you cannot require use inconsistent with gender expression or gender identity. All covered entities shall allow individuals the use of gender segregated facilities that are consistent with that individual's gender expression or gender identity. So even if we have a non-binary facility, in addition to the men's and women's facilities under state law, and very rightly, trans people cannot be required to use a non-binary facility. I happen to identify as non-binary. I would be delighted to use a non-binary facility at the Y, but there, there sadly, there isn't one. Many trans people do not identify as non-binary and they should not ever and cannot be under state law be required to use a non-binary facility when a binary facility exists. Trans women are women, trans women are men, non-binary people are non-binary. That's it. This discussion is not It has been going on for a long time. Washington state law was changed quite a long time ago. It's a shame that this conversation hasn't penetrated to the level of people in Port Townsend, but that isn't the fault of transgender people and they must not be penalized. We talk about little children. I grew up as a transgender child with no one to talk to about it. it. No other trans people visible in life. I didn't have a word for transgender. I lived a miserable life as a child. What a miracle it would have been to experience transgender adults around me in my life. An utter miracle life changing. That is a gift that we give to children today. Trans people are probably at least 1 to 3 percent of the population in this country and in fact around the world. And guess what? We have been for a very long time. I welcome a Port Townsend Y and a system wide Y that welcomes transgender people. And I welcome living in the great state of Washington that has a law just like this. Thank you. Thank you. Do we have anyone else online? Yes, Anna Wolf. I will unmute Anna and Anna, you'll have to unmute yourself to speak. - Hello, can you hear me? - Yes. - Hi, this is actually Mo Wolf. I live in Brennan, Washington. And I just wanted to say that I am a transgender man myself and I have had surgeries. I have gone on hormones for years and I have a beard and I appear fully as a man. And to say that people should go into the facilities that align with their biological sex can cause trans people extreme amounts of violence. If I was to walk into a woman's restroom, people would automatically feel threatened as I look like a man. I know that might not be the case for all trans people. Some trans people might not appear to be the gender that they identify with, but those people deserve space and access just as other cisgender people do. and comparing transgender people to pedophiles is absolutely disgusting. As somebody who has been a victim of sexual abuse myself, it is horrible to go that low to call a group of people who are just trying to live their lives these horrible things that aren't even true. Pedophiles exist in the world and not every transgender person is a pedophile. Transgender people have extreme high rates of suicide and violence and particularly trans trans people of color are an example of people who are targeted by the police, who are targeted by people who are transphobic. And spreading this kind of message that transgender people are pedophiles and are going to hurt people is horrible. You say you want to protect children, but I was a transgender child who was not protected because I could go into a restroom and be harassed and assaulted because I'm transgender. I don't see very much many instances of people going into the restroom being assaulted by transgender people. In fact, it is often the other way around. So maybe you should realize that it's actually trans people who are going through these kinds of violent things. And I think it would be great to have a non-binary space for people to be able to go to. However, I believe that people should go to the restroom that they feel is safe for them. Because I don't feel like it would be safe for me to go into a women's restroom. And I feel like that might make women uncomfortable. However, we are moving into a society where gender is becoming fluid and it's becoming not binary. And I understand that might make people uncomfortable. However, if it makes you uncomfortable, you maybe need to arrange some different situation for yourself, you know? And I think that all public restrooms should have private changing spaces because somebody, the same sex as you who was changing could be a, you know, someone who might be creepy or pedophile. It doesn't just have to be the opposite sex, you know. There's rape and sexual violence of same sex people. So it's not anything to do with if someone has a penis or a vagina or whatever they have. It can happen to anybody at any moment. And I think that we need to be aware of the kinds of challenges trans people go through and make sure we have laws and have spaces that protect these people. Thank you. - Anyone else? - Darcy Reader. - Yes, please. Darcy, you'll have to unmute yourself to speak. - Yep, can you hear me? - Yes. - Hi, I'm Darcy Reader. I live in Irondale and I have an eight-year-old daughter who's in the Port Townsend School District. I heard someone tonight say that seeing trans people at the Y could be confusing for children. And that really struck me. My best friend is trans and so my child has been privileged to grow up knowing and loving trans people her entire life. And it's never been confusing for her. She has already learned though that some people are anti-trans and that to her is confusing to know someone and love someone who is trans makes it so hard to discriminate. I think when I hear from these people, I just think you haven't been lucky enough to have somebody in your life and have not been able to conjure up the empathy without knowing them personally to see what you're doing. I'm just, I'm sickened when I hear people try to use the word feminism as their excuse to discriminate. I am a feminist, of course. My feminism is trans inclusive and my parenting is trans inclusive and our community needs to be trans inclusive. Thank you. - Anyone else signed up? Yes, we have J3 Lingapa. Okay. J3, you'll have to unmute yourself to speak. Okay. Can you hear me? Yes. All right. I'm J3 Lingapa. I'm a Port Townsend resident. And my comment is actually about affordable housing. A number of Port Townsend residents who remotely attended the City Council retreat on Monday, July 18th, the meeting. We understand that was a technical issue. But unfortunately, that leaves port Townsend residents with no detailed public record of an important planning meeting all day planning meeting, including what was apparently a fairly long discussion about affordable housing. I realize there will be a written like meeting notes, but that's not the same as actually the. like meeting notes, but that's not the same as actually the audio of what happened at that meeting. Many of our current council members were elected because they stated that action on affordable housing was a top priority. Yet what residents have been seeing recently is permitting of housing developments that are almost certain to be unaffordable, such as the ones on Madrona Ridge and Cook Avenue, for example, properties in the Cook Avenue development that were touted by our previous city manager as an answer to the affordable housing problem five years ago are selling for 679,990 and higher. So for that reason, we respectfully request that you redo your discussion of your plan for affordable housing at an upcoming city council meeting with proper audio. And preferably that you also make your stand and your plans available to the public. We are about to enter the sixth year of the affordable housing crisis declared by Jefferson County in 2017. So residents really deserve to know what all our city leaders are planning to do and thinking about with respect to this affordable housing emergency. So thanks very much for the opportunity to make that comment. Thank you. We're all signed up. Mary Bond. All right, Mary, and you'll have to unmute yourself to speak. I'm unmuted. Hi, my name is Mary Bond and like Julie Jamon, I live in the county but not in the city of Fort Townsend. I'm horrified to hear the biggity biggatory quoted by Julie Jamon, Sylvia Hines, Allison Headland, Rose Marshall, Hannah McFarland, Albie Baker, Eli Clippard and others. They have a lot to learn and they should start now to educate themselves. They can ask their children, their friends, their coworkers, their family members, but they are bigots and ashamed, embarrassed and horrified. Trans women are women. Trans men are men. They can start there. Thank you. You know, I'll signed up. Yes, Sebastian Eckert. Sebastian, you don't have to unmute yourself to speak. Yeah, thanks very much. I've learned a lot in this discussion, and I appreciate the passion with which people on what they think are opposing sides are making their case. I was raised in a family that as a kid included a lot of homosexual couples. So for me, that just came to be a fairly normal situation. So I don't have any bigotry against people that choose an alternative lifestyle. It's not really that alternative anymore. And I see this as not being that alternative either But I do think as a father, when I took my daughter to the pool to learn how to swim, I would have been pretty upset if there was some guy lurking around in the women's locker room. Maybe I need to get used to that idea, but it seemed to me that since we have an age of consent for everything from voting, driving, drinking, military service, and having sex, that maybe the children that are in that pool should have some sort of insulation from that, at least for a while until they grow up. I don't know, I think the idea of alternate changing facilities is probably the best thing that we can do at this point. So thank you very much for a very lively discussion and for your consideration. Thank you. - Anyone else signed up? - I do, quick double check, but no, I do not see any additional raise hands. All right, last call for anyone else to speak at this point in time, please. First podium, state your name where you live for the record. Yes, thanks. I'm Steven Schumacher, I live in Port Townsend. About this issue, I would just like to say that I do feel like Julie has not had due process and she's the only person who has been discriminated against about this this week. So I feel like she should at least have some process as an 80 year old woman who's been at the Y for so long To be able to have more than just you know hit the road and then get insulted from then on On a totally different subject. I was just wanting to ask the city manager Do you I wonder how many officers have police officers have resigned or retired in the past couple of years from the Port Townsend police force and were exit interviews conducted and Are the results you know perhaps anonymized from those exit interviews available for public? to to view and I also wondered how many poor Townsend officers have left to work for the sheriff's office or to Work for the Kitsap County Positions. Thank you very much >> I think I'm unmuted. >> Thank you. Michelle Sandoval, City of Port Townsend. Thank you, Councillors, for all of your work. And thank you, public, for the lively discussion. A couple of things that I just want to say, and that is, And thank you public for the lively discussion. A couple of things that I just want to say, and that is if you were to supplant transgender with other terms, and I'll just use myself as an example, a Mexican-American woman, but I'll bring it back to when I was a Mexican-American child since I was Mexican American my entire life. When I was about seven, I was cornered by a group of young boys on bikes while I was walking home from school. And they started to bully me. They spit on me. And my immediate thought was it was because I was Mexican. And lo and behold, after one of them, the leader, spoke up after spitting on me, he said, "Catholic," because I was wearing a Catholic school uniform. So that was a surprise. But if you were to supplant transgender with Catholic or Mexican or black or native or Indian or fill in the blank, I think that people would be surprised at the way that they sounded in their bigotry. And what I would say is that I understand fear. And yes, if the city of Port Townsend, specifically the Y who has the contract with the city of Port Townsend, had the luxury of building and creating a separate room for the people who were fearful, that would be great. But at the same time, I think that if we're going to get anywhere, the people who are standing at the podium this evening expressing fear need to really think of the terminology and as pedophiles and get that out of their language. former president called Mexican Americans predators. And we've all lived through that before. I think right now even people who are upset with the Supreme Court and their recent decisions are angry because there's so many Catholics on the Supreme Court. And And I think as humans we tend to make assumptions. And even Mr. Eggert, who recently made a comment that children should be saved from this kind of exposure until they're older, and yet our kids are exposed to extreme violence with school shootings, you know, it seems really out of place. So I would just suggest that if this conversation were to go forward in any sort of capacity, that people need to understand that language does matter and that the first thing we need to do is get rid of assumptions and the prejudice that we all hold. Thank you very much. Thank you. You're welcome. Shetaberg. Okay. It's not discriminated against. All right. All right. You'll have to unmute yourself to speak. Okay. Thank you. Um, forgive me for my voice. Um, a little cold. Um, I'm Shasta Berg. I live in Port Townsend. Um, I just have to say that, um, the wording that people are using, uh, for our very loved trans community is incredibly hurtful. Um, I have the honor and privilege to know many trans people and I'm also the mom of five children and do you know what trans people are? They are not pedophiles. They are teachers and they are leaders and they are the bravest people I know. And so I just encourage all of you who have such a short-sighted vision as to what trans people are and have the absolute hurtful audacity to call them these terrible names. Please stop. Please reach out to someone in our community. I know many of them, and they would gladly have coffee with you, and you could learn that they are not these monsters. The monsters are typically white male. They're the ones that are doing these awful things. None of our trans community. You know, it's just, it is so short-sighted and hurtful, and I just really ask you to reach out think about what you're saying when you're saying it because you're absolutely mistaken. Thank you. All signed up. We have Megan Doherty. Okay. Megan you'll have to unmute yourself to speak. Hi can you hear me? Yes. Excellent thank you for the opportunity. My name is Megan Doherty and I am a lesbian and I grew up in poor Townsend. I was at the pool today as part of the counter protest And it was very wonderful to see so many people turn out to support this person and the transgender community. And there was people of all ages, and it was very heartwarming to see the amount of support and love that was poured into this. I will say from experience of having many transgender friends and colleagues that this community is brave and strong and very, very capable of being excellent parents and providers to their families. Transgender people of the LGBTQA+ community are the most targeted, as particularly transgendered women of color. If the party of Save the Children is going to say this in front of children to their parents, the notion that someone would want to sexually assault their own child, and you say this in a public place, that is not saving anyone's child. Any more than taking a transgender child away from their loving families is saving a child. All that I heard today from the opposing side was ignorance and hatred and bigotry. It's not just a lack of exposure. It's a choice to live in willful ignorance. You might not understand something, but that does not make that something wrong. Just because you don't personally know a transgendered person doesn't mean you've never been around one, or that that person is not valid, that community is not valid. And I promise you, transgendered people are 100% valid. They don't need your approval. As far as insulating children from exposures, that only creates more ignorance. That's just fighting ignorance with more ignorance. That lady and her family had every right to use the pool the same as I do. And any mother, I've been in that pool for years. I promise you, parents bring their children in there, change into their swim clothes, and go about their business, and they had every right to do so just as any other mother of any other walk of life. No one deserves to be spoken to and threatened the way those people were speaking to and threatening that family today. You might not like it, so if you don't like it, since you have the problem, you can choose to leave the pool and go somewhere else. Do something else. But you do not have the right to pick and choose who gets to use a pool based on your own bigotry and your own ignorance. It sounds a lot like whites only or straight people only. And your religious beliefs are for you. They're not for me. You decide what's right for you based on your religious beliefs. You don't decide for everyone else. And if they are citizens of this town and taxpayers, they are welcome to use the pool whether you like it or not. And as far as the notion of a man trying to use the women's locker room, that is not what's happened. A transgendered person tried to use the locker room. Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Anyone else signed up? No. All right. All right, everyone, last call for any other comment. OK. All right, this is the last one. Hi, I'm Addie Thornton, and I had no intention on coming up here and standing in front of everybody. But from what I've heard is a lot of projection that those of us who feel discomforted, feel that decency and morality has been somewhat altered, that we're just hearing things that we're not doing. The issue at hand is that there is not a place that can be separate so that everybody is being allowed to be who they are and that those of us who have grown up for however many years and have never encountered this until just recently, just the past few years where there's this agenda that has been foisted down our throats. And it's not natural. I can't help but feel that this is politically driven, that we are being not asked but coerced into accepting that, which then is impinging on our rights and our freedoms and our ability to operate in a situation where we feel comfortable. I would feel very uncomfortable if a man-- it doesn't matter if he identifies as a-- there's a mantra going on. And just because somebody says it so many times, a trans woman is-- or however that goes-- doesn't make it real. It is not scientific. It's not biological. So why don't we agree to disagree? But we have to put conditions into place. And the Y has to-- I believe that the Y has to work in that regard for the majority of people. Because as somebody said, it's only 1% to 3% of the population that identifies as a different gender. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Is there your name or you look for the record? My name is Nicole Cimenti, and I live in Jefferson County. I would like to ask one question. Everybody is saying, this is, this is, this is. Can anybody explain to me if a woman who wants to identify as a man and a man who identifies as a woman and say therefore that's what they are. Why is it that they have to take hormones to confirm their belief for the rest of their lives? Thank you. (audience applauds) - Thank you, William. Say your name and where you live for the record. - Hi, my name is Lina Constria. I live in Port Townsend. I'm a business owner in Port Townsend as well with my wife. I just want to address the second to last person who spoke about how people are calling us things that were not. And she was in support of everybody who's spoken up and called people bigots. But I would just like to reiterate the fact that a lot of people have also been calling trans people pedophiles, which that is also a statement of calling people things that they aren't. She also spoke about being on the team of morality, and I don't quite understand how a trans person or supporting a trans person is amoral. And I also would just like to reiterate, she said they're only 1% to 3% as a Jewish woman. Jewish people are about 2% of America. And I would be appalled if I saw a No Jews sign on the YMCA. So to say they're only 1% to 3%, I think, is disgusting to say that, oh, they're such a small minority. Well, it doesn't matter anyways. Trans people are people, they deserve human rights. They are protected, they are a protected class under Washington state law, just like any other protected class. Women are deserving of spaces that are safe as are men. As has been stated many times today, trans people are not pedophiles. The majority of trans people are fine, upstanding citizens who are great parents and who love children and want to nurture and support children. There is a large majority of people that I've heard here today who are against trans people who think that trans people are in the bathrooms and changing rooms to look at other people's genitals. But what I'm seeing today is that the only people who are concerned about other people's genitals are the people who are against trans people. Thank you. - All right. - We're not against you. We're just against this policy. - All right. All right, everyone. So I'm not going to speak to the particular incident that happened a few days ago. I think the state law on that is very clear. What I'm going to speak to is that poor Townsend is a welcoming community and hate and discrimination has no place in this community. LGBTQ people, trans people in particular in this case are entitled to basic respect and they have not been receiving that in much of the commentary tonight on the pedophiles and rapists and predators. I listen to you quietly I'd like you to listen to me quietly now. Given the rise in harassment and bigotry the trans persons have experienced recently. It's essential that we all speak up, that cisgendered people like me speak up in support of our trans community. To the commentary about whether or not transgender women understand that being a woman is to be subject to violence, you may be surprised to know that transgendered people are up to four times more likely to experience sexual violence and other forms of violence than cisgendered people. So anyone who's claiming that transgendered people represent a threat to cisgendered women do not seem to understand the balance that actually exists in the level violence that was perpetrated against transgender people. That's all I'm going to say at this point in time. The state law is clear. There you go. Any staff response? Yeah, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I won't repeat the state law, but this was something that was discussed at the state level at 2015. Again, we can kind of leave it at that. There's been a little bit of mis—little. There's been considerable misinformation on what happened and actually who's responsible for policy. I think aside from the state who actually has codified law about what we can and cannot do, it's not a debate that we can have at council or make a determination different than what is state law. The ban, for instance, or some comments, there's an operation agreement that allows the YMCA as operator of Mountain view pool per our agreement to make the determination on who is welcome at the facility and who is not. And there are conflicting accounts of what happened, including some validated by people who witnessed it just this past week, and information I've received from the CEO of the YMCA that indicate some significant verbal abuse occurred both to the staff member and in front of young children, and hence the reason for the intervention and the ask for individual to leave. So I think it's important also to know that there are policies that the Y has to protect people, including background checks. There are policies the Y has instituted to help us comply with the state law, including actually creating facilities on site for those who are uncomfortable, who happen to identify as binary, to use a restroom if they don't feel comfortable in the presence of a trans person. But let's be very clear, the state law says that that's the responsibility of that person, and hence the Y has provided that opportunity for that person, in this case, Ms. Jamon, to use that option instead of confronting a staff person who's been well vetted and valued by the YMCA. There's no showers. So I'm sorry. I've listened to probably the most-- this is really a challenging thing for me to do, because on a personal note, I'd very be happy to have a conversation about my own belief system. I'm trying to mirror what the state law and the local law and our agreements say. I've got a strong opinion about this one. Let me just tell you. The last thing I think I just need to notice here or to note is the this our staff, our team is comprised of a variety of individuals, some who identify as trans, LGBTQ community And it's our duty to both not just respect diversity, but to actually embrace that as part of what builds a strong city team. And I couldn't stand up here and say to you that we are not behind the wise decision based on abusive behavior to stand for the respect of every individual. And that's something that I would expect out of my team. And I'm glad that Wendy Bard expects that for her team as well. There are a couple other comments that were made off this subject. I realize not everyone's here to hear a response to that, but I did want to at least acknowledge the comments made about housing and the retreat We've spoken about this I think mayor Faber just on the radio with me last week I've said this at three consecutive weeks of KPTZ broadcast So it's been well noticed and actually the public was invited to attend in person Some members of the current public were there in person I did listen to the audio today and it is not high quality. That was done as a courtesy for those who could possibly just zoom in and we actually changed midstream in the meeting to improve the audio with a quick setup of a new piece of equipment. I'm sorry that didn't work out for everybody audio wise but the minutes are posted, the materials are posted and actually that's not a one and done kind of conversation. This is a setting of a work plan that's an iterative process that actually requires people to show up and be part of it. So this will be something including on the 18th of August where there'll be a city county port PUD conversation about housing and how we work together. I would invite everybody to participate and actually be right there as part of that conversation. There's a comment about parking. I think it's very similar to previous comments made about parking. I'll note that that was also covered at that retreat and indicated in the minutes and also in the draft work plan. That is one of the things on the docket. And then I think the final comment that was made on a different subject was around police staffing and we intend to take a status report to counsel from the police chief later this summer. We've made some good progress there. - Thank you, John.